Proposal posted to Guild Forum

By the 18 July I had heard nothing from Guild about my proposal apart from an acknowledgement from the then Chairman of the IT Subcommittee on 17 May 2013. So I decided to sound out a wider section of the membership. I copied the proposal to the Guild Forum, adding at the end:

I have proposed to the Committee (on 2 May) that the Guild create a web-site (or an area of its web site) which can act as a web-host for members' web sites. If the Guild Committe agrees to such a project, I am willing to take the lead in discussing the project with members, researching its feasibility, setting it up and managing it through the early stages, in consultation the IT Subcommittee, other Guild Officers.

The discussion here has already thrown up a number of issues that would need to be addressed, none of them show-stoppers I think.

I do not know whether the Committee has discussed my proposal yet and I await their response.

Responses on the Guild Forum

My posting to the Forum drew an immediate and positive reaction from some Forum members:

Hi Mike, Its a really good idea - I don't need the archiving at the moment but will do at some point in the future and the thought of leaving my research as a "live" legacy for other researchers (with the confidence that it won't be deleted) is a good one.

Good luck with the project

Very Best Regards
Richard Heaton

 * * *

I would love to see a 'future proofed' facility such as Mike Spathaky describes. It is just the sort of membership benefit I would welcome, albeit for an extra cost.

Regards

Mike James

 * * *

Hi Mike,
I completely agree with you that this is the way forward. I have an extensive website with thousands of names on it, all with multiple references...

Hopefully the Committee will make this a priority for discussion amongst themselves and then amongst the membership before more ONS's are lost forever.

Doug Burgum
Studying BURGUM and BURGHAM worldwide
No. 1476

 * * *

I would echo the comments re Mike Spathky's idea.

I think it would also encourage me to have a website knowing there was a chance of some longevity to the information.

Kathryn Ellis

 * * *

I would echo Mike's comment, what I would save on hosting fees could go to the Guild

Paul [Featherstone] 2627

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All,

Very happy to be corrected, but surely most websites are now dependant on a variety of 3rd party products for their functionality?

Whilst HTML will probably always be readable, I'm not so sure about database driven sites (including my own TNG site)...

Perhaps we, as the Guild, should be thinking about recommending web standards for archival purposes?, just as we (should?) do for documents...

Kind Regards

Ken [Toll]

Guild acknowledgement of proposal

Meanwhile, unknown to me, the IT Subcommittee had discussed my proposal and its then chairman, Ken Mycock, had submitted a report to the main Guild Committee on 5 July 2014. Following my posting on the Forum. Ken Mycock informed me of this and on 19 July 2014, I posted this on the Forum:

Hello all,

It is pleasing to have several favourable responses to my posting yesterday in this thread.

In that posting I wrote, "I do not know whether the Committee has discussed my proposal yet and I await their response."

Ken Mycock has now written to say that he had presented a paper on my proposal to the Committee meeting on 5th July. I was able to find his paper on the Guild web site at http://www.one-name.org/members/minutes/2014July/11%20Guild%20hosting%20of%20members%20websites.pdf

The Chairman also wrote to apologise for the fact that I had not received any official response. She said that the Committee delegated an action to the recently formed Web Team "to discuss this further and bring to a future meeting".

So the proposal is now an action item for the Web team and, while I recognise they have other, more urgent issues at the moment, I look forward to taking part in the discussion.

Mike Spathaky
Cree One-Name Study
www.cree.name
Oadby UK and Sydney NSW

IT Subcommittee Report to Guild Committee meeting on 5 July 2014

Ken Mycock’s report to the Guild Committee included the following comments (in blue type) resulting from the IT Subcommittee's discussion of the proposal. I have inserted a response in black text after each paragraph:

Email discussion with ITSub broadly agreed that this proposal had merit, particularly as part of the proposed enhanced support for our older members. However, it would involve a considerable commitment of financial resources and volunteer effort by the Guild, both to implement and to maintain, particularly for an indefinite period.

    I am pleased to note that ITsub found merit in the proposal. I believe one of its merits is that the scheme would be self-financing and would not involve much effort by the Guild, as I think the proposal made clear. Once the scheme is set up, there would be a small amount of time spent in setting up the web space of each new participant.

Implementing the proposal would make the Guild an ISP reseller, which involves service guarantees to members using the facility and not inconsiderable time and effort to keep what is likely to be a wide variety of applications (eg TNG/ Second Site, various blogging apps …) up to date. Our existing ISP (Krystal) does not offer reseller accounts.

    It does not necessarily mean that the Guild was officially a reseller (vis-avis the hosting company). My web hosting company’s normal web space facility could be used and my guess is that Krystal’s “Ruby Unlimited” package would too, although the spec does not mention subdomains. To be honest subdomains are not essential to the scheme. A web site could be within a folder named www.one-name.org/myresearchname/ . I’m pretty sure any web host will allow separate FTP access to different users and that’s the minimum requirement.

    I had in mind that member’s web sites would be written in HTML and Javascript. These are amongst the most stable file formats in computing and have remained backwards compatible from the start of the World Wide Web. I have also uploaded xls files to my web site and realise these may turn out less stable in the long term. Second site is a program that creates static web pages consisting of HTML+js. Once created they need no more servicing than any other HTML+js pages. Admittedly the pages cannot be edited without using SS and the underlying database (The Master Genealogist or TMG) is needed to edit the data used. I am happy that this situation is the best that could be hoped for as regards my web site. However a new user of the site could obtain their own copies of TMG and SS software and they would then be able to edit the data. This is because the TMG data file and the SS specification file are stored on the web site as downloadable files.

    I am not familiar with The Next Generation (TNG) except that I have always steered clear of web pages that might rely on the continued existence of commercial organisations. They all have a limited shelf life. [I have now looked into TNG a little and have commented on it separately here.]

When a site was passed to the Guild from a deceased member, the Guild would become responsible for domain name renewal fees, keeping the site compliant with changing applications and obligations under ICANN requirements (January 2014) to confirm contact details in writing.

    I agree that ownership and renewal of domain names would be a major headache. However the scheme as outlined does not include provision for members’ web sites hosted with the Guild to have their own domain names, even if they have had previously. As I said in my original proposal, I would be very happy to move my web site from www.cree.name to a subdomain address such as cree.one-name.net run under the Guild’s auspices.

The proposal suggests that with a take-up of 100 members subscribing £100 each, the scheme would be selffunding, but this still doesn't address the availability of volunteers for maintenance. The workload would be such that the existing web team could not absorb it and additional volunteers would have to be found. With the proposed “indefinite” Guild commitment to maintain sites, there would be no option to let the service lapse in the absence of volunteers. In an email response to ITSub, CAG said “Unless a bequest from a member was very generous how can we be sure that the preservation of a member's study (or maybe 1000 member's deposited studies!) will be within the Guild's capabilities for 10, 20, 50 or 100 years?”

    I believe I have answered the financial aspect above. In my proposal I also said, I am willing to take the lead in researching its feasibility, setting it up and managing it through the early stages, in collaboration the IT Subcommittee and other Guild Officers.

    This does not limit my willingness to carry on running the scheme for the Guild after the early stages. However I am conscious of my own mortality and that is the point of the scheme. Once set up it should almost run itself. For the minimal amount of work needed it should be possible to find a volunteer from among the scheme's own participants.

Overall, the ITSub discussion was inconclusive, but strongly indicates that a cautious approach should be taken. Hence, I make no recommendation either way, but pass this to the Committee for a decision.

Guild Committee minute from meeting of 5 July 2014

11) GUILD HOSTING OF MEMBERS’ WEBSITES

Committee asked Web Team to discuss this further and bring to a future meeting
ACTION 2014/086:Web Team

5. Revised proposal